Rural Economy and Connectivity Committee (Hybrid)

Meeting date: Wednesday, October 28, 2020

Official Report 606KB pdf

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Subordinate Legislation and Document Laid for Approval

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Mandatory Use of Closed Circuit Television in Slaughterhouses (Scotland) Regulations 2020 [Draft]

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Welfare of Farmed Animals (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 2020 [Draft]

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Code of Practice for the Welfare of Laying Hens (Revocation) (Scotland) Notice 2020

Good morning, and welcome to the 26th meeting in 2020 of the Rural Economy and Connectivity Committee. I ask everyone to ensure that their mobile phone is in silent mode. I am always nervous about ensuring that mine is, having been caught out before.

The meeting will be conducted in hybrid format, with some committee members and all the witnesses participating remotely. I have received no apologies from committee members, although Angus MacDonald will not be joining us until slightly later, due to other parliamentary business. I remind members who are attending remotely that they will need to type an “R” in the BlueJeans chat function to make a request to speak.

Agenda item 1 is consideration of subordinate legislation. We will consider two instruments that are subject to affirmative procedure and one notice that has been laid under the affirmative procedure, as detailed on the committee’s agenda. The committee will take evidence from the Minister for Rural Affairs and the Natural Environment and her officials, who are all participating remotely, as I said.

Before we go any further, it is important that members declare any farming interests.

I declare an interest in a farming partnership that I am involved with.

I am a part-owner of a very small registered agricultural holding on which sheep regularly graze. I take no income from the holding.

I, too, declare an interest in a farming partnership, which is in Moray. The declarations of interest will remain in place for the whole meeting, as we will deal with other agricultural matters later.

The motions seeking approval for the affirmative instruments and the notice will be considered at items 2 to 4. Members should note that there have been no representations to the committee on them.

From the Scottish Government, I welcome Mairi Gougeon, the Minister for Rural Affairs and the Natural Environment, Andrew Voas, veterinary head of animal welfare, and Grant McLarty, who is a solicitor.

Minister—would you like to make a brief opening statement on the two Scottish statutory instruments and the notice?

[Inaudible.]

Minister, you are still muted.

I will start with the—

Please start again. You were muted.

That is fine. I am sorry—I hope that you can hear me now. I was saying that if you want me to talk about the two SSIs back to back, I am happy to do that.

I will start with the draft Mandatory Use of Closed Circuit Television in Slaughterhouses (Scotland) Regulations 2020. CCTV offers benefits through increasing the public’s trust that processes are carried out properly and in accordance with legal requirements; as a means of identifying animal welfare issues or incidents that might be missed by physical observation; as a source of evidence in cases of reported wrongdoing; as a management tool to assess and evaluate slaughterhouse operations; and as a valuable tool in staff training on handling and welfare of animals.

The instrument will ensure full coverage of all slaughtering operations in areas in Scottish slaughterhouses in which live animals are present, in order that we can achieve fully the welfare benefits that are associated with CCTV monitoring. The desired full coverage will be ensured by the requirement on food business operators to install and maintain CCTV equipment that complies with the regulations.

Food businesses will also be required to arrange for retention and storage, for a period of 90 days, of images and information that are captured by the compliant CCTV equipment. That time period is considered to be proportionate because it will allow sufficient time for footage to be reviewed, and for unreported events to come to light and footage of them not to be destroyed before potential use as evidence for court and non-court proceedings, and because it will allow footage to be used for staff training purposes.

The CCTV footage will also enable official veterinarians to observe animals that are in high welfare-risk areas, as well as those that are dangerous or are inaccessible to people, and to identify animal behaviours that might be hidden from human observers.

The regulations will provide Food Standards Scotland with powers of unrestricted access to CCTV output, for the purpose of monitoring and verifying animal welfare standards in approved slaughterhouses. That will be similar to current provisions in the Welfare of Animals at Time of Killing (Scotland) Regulations 2012, whereby FSS can request any footage that covers parts of a slaughterhouse. The welfare of animals will be improved by the power to access data immediately, rather than having to wait for a request to be fulfilled.

The regulations will also give Food Standards Scotland enforcement powers to check compliance with CCTV requirements. Those include powers of inspection, and powers to seize CCTV equipment. If necessary, seized equipment can be used as evidence of non-compliance. However, the regulations require Food Standards Scotland to return to the food business operator, as soon as is reasonably practicable, any seized equipment, images and data that are not required in court proceedings. That requirement should ensure smooth operation for the industry.

The enforcement authority is also given the power—again, it is similar to what is currently in operation under the Welfare of Animals at Time of Killing (Scotland) Regulations 2012—to issue enforcement notices to remedy any contravention of the regulations. The food business operators are provided with an appeals mechanism for enforcement notices that are served. In relation to such appeals, a sheriff may uphold or deny the appeal, and change the enforcement notice.

Do you want me to move directly on to comment on the next SSI? I am happy to take questions on the first one, at this point.

I think that we will see whether there are any questions, if that is all right, minister. Peter Chapman has a question.

I note from the business and regulatory impact assessment that there are 30 slaughterhouses in Scotland—24 on the mainland, which already have in place at least some CCTV, and six on the islands, none of which have any CCTV. I am sure that the island slaughterhouses are quite small and would all say that they are not making large profits. Are they content, willing and happy to go ahead, or is there a funding issue for the six island slaughterhouses in finding the necessary cash to install CCTV?

Some of the smaller island slaughterhouses have raised that issue, which is why I wrote to the six island slaughterhouses last week to say that we are looking to provide them with financial assistance for installation of CCTV equipment, because they do not have it. We have offered up to £5,000. We are willing to help and to provide that assistance for island slaughterhouses because we acknowledge their circumstances and realise that it might be more difficult for them to install that equipment.

Good morning, minister. We do not currently have any mobile slaughterhouses, but in the event that we do, would they be covered by the regulations? Would a mobile slaughterhouse have to have CCTV?

We would have to look at that. As the member has rightly said, we do not have mobile abattoirs at the moment. We have done a study of whether they should be an option, or are something that we should investigate further. We are actively considering the matter. They would, of course, be factored into future decisions, if we were to decide to pursue their use.

Good morning, minister. I would like to follow up on Peter Chapman’s question on island slaughterhouses.

You are introducing an important animal welfare provision that I warmly welcome and will support. I also welcome the fact that the Government is looking at providing some support. Will you keep the committee advised about that, please, because it is an issue that causes concern? Given that it is an animal welfare issue, we most certainly want to retain the island slaughterhouses, rather than having beasts moved off the islands for slaughter. Will you keep the committee apprised of how that goes, please?

Absolutely—I would be happy to keep the committee informed of that. I recognise the importance of having the facilities on the islands, which is why we want to offer financial help to enable them to comply with the regulations. When issues were raised in the initial consultation on the regulations, we worked to take them on board, and we have worked with facilities as much as possible to ensure that they can comply. I am more than happy to keep the committee apprised of discussions, as we move forward and implement the regulations.

Christine Grahame, who is attending the committee as a substitute member, would like to ask questions.

I have just a quick one. I campaigned on the issue for years, so I want to know what the timescale is for making sure that CCTV is installed in all areas in slaughterhouses, including lairage and so on.

The regulations will come fully in force on 1 July 2021, when we look to have all slaughterhouses compliant.

Thank you very much.

I have a question to ask as well, if I may. How did you settle on 90 days as the right length of time for film to be stored? As you know, incidents could come to light after that length of time.

As I said in my opening statement, it is felt that 90 days is sufficient time for film to be stored, because that will allow enough time should incidents come to light and CCTV footage be needed. I do not know whether my officials have anything to add; I believe that that might be the length of time that is in operation elsewhere. As far as I am aware, there have not been any issues raised in relation to the 90-day time frame.

I have one more question. Coming from a farming background, I know how important farmers feel it is that livestock be treated properly in slaughterhouses. What opportunities are there for farmers to check footage to ensure that their animals have gone through the process correctly? I think that it is very important to the majority of farmers in Scotland that the process be as humane as possible.

You are absolutely right, but we have also been careful about data and who will have access to the information. Under the regulations, Food Standards Scotland would have access to the footage, which I think is most appropriate given what is being looked at. When it comes to CCTV and who can see footage, that would be up to Food Standards Scotland.

Could farmers go to Food Standards Scotland if they felt that there was an issue?

I would have to ask officials about how things would work in that particular circumstance. If a farmer believed that there was an issue and reported it to Food Standards Scotland, and Food Standards Scotland then investigated, it would FSS that looked at the CCTV footage; it would be obliged to investigate. Perhaps Andrew Voas has more to add.

Andrew, I do not know whether you have anything to add. Do you want to come in?

I am sorry—I have been having connection problems, so I have not caught the last couple minutes of that conversation. I did not catch the question.

There is a connection issue. I am satisfied with the answer that the minister has given me, but I wanted to give you the opportunity to come in, if need be. I am satisfied, so I will not rehearse the arguments. Thank you, Andrew.

I will move on to asking the minister to speak to the notice.

Do you mean in relation to the laying hens guidance?

I mean the other SSI, on welfare of animals.

09:15  

The purpose of the draft Welfare of Farmed Animals (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 2020 is to amend the Welfare of Farmed Animals (Scotland) Regulations 2010 to put a statutory duty on those who are responsible for looking after laying hens to be acquainted with our new laying hens guidance. The committee will remember that the regulations were amended last year, following publication of our guidance for the welfare of meat chickens.

Among other things, the 2010 regulations require that those who are responsible for farmed animals be acquainted with any relevant animal welfare code, and that they have access to that code while attending to the animal. They also require that anyone who is employed or engaged by the person responsible for the animal be acquainted with, has access to, and has received instruction and guidance on the code. The regulations make non-compliance with those requirements an offence.

Following publication of the guidance on welfare of meat chickens last year, we amended the 2010 regulations so that the requirements in relation to codes of practice would also apply in relation to animal welfare guidance documents. Anyone who is responsible for a farmed animal must also be acquainted with any relevant animal welfare guidance.

The advantage of guidance documents is that they can be revised and updated quickly, and so can be more easily kept in line with new thinking on good practice. However, the fact that they can be revised and updated at any time means that it is necessary to define in the regulations exactly which guidance documents those who are responsible for farmed animals should be acquainted with. That is why, when we amended the regulations last year, we defined “animal welfare guidance” as the new guidance for welfare of meat chickens, which we had just published.

As the committee will be aware, we published new guidance for welfare of laying hens and pullets on 21 August 2020. We now need to widen the definition of animal welfare guidance in the 2010 regulations to include that guidance, too. The effect will be that anyone who is responsible for looking after laying hens, and anyone whom they employ to look after their hens, will be required by law to be acquainted with the new laying hens guidance, and to have access to it when they are attending to the hens.

The revocation notice that we will also look at today is to revoke the existing code of practice on laying hens. That will avoid there being any confusion as to which guidelines should be followed by stock keepers, and what they have a statutory duty to be acquainted with.

The combined effect of the documents that we are looking at today will be that the old code of practice on laying hens will no longer be in force, and the requirements that had been in force in relation to that code will now apply in relation to the new laying hens guidance.

I am happy to take questions from the committee.

How will you get the message out to the industry that the regulations have changed? Is there a budget for relaying that information to the industry? It is important that folk know what the changes are.

Peter Chapman is absolutely right—it is vital that industry is aware. We work very closely with industry anyway, when we are developing guidance. Many in the industry are already working to the standards that are in the guidance. The guidance covers a wide range of people in the industry, including commercial producers, smallholders and hobby farmers, which is why we are setting out to communicate directly with as many people as possible to make them aware of the new guidance that will be in force, if it is agreed to. We will make them aware that the guidance has been published.

Most people in the industry know that the guidance exists and will be working to it. However, using our various media and social media channels to get the message out, we will do what we can to engage with and raise awareness among as many people as possible.

There are no further questions, so we move to item 2, which is formal consideration of motion S5M-22891.

Motion moved,

That the Rural Economy and Connectivity Committee recommends that the Mandatory Use of Closed Circuit Television in Slaughterhouses (Scotland) Regulations 2020 [draft] be approved.—[Mairi Gougeon]

Motion agreed to.

Item 3 is formal consideration of motion S5M-22766.

Motion moved,

That the Rural Economy and Connectivity Committee recommends that the Welfare of Farmed Animals (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 2020 [draft] be approved.—[Mairi Gougeon]

Motion agreed to.

Item 4 is formal consideration of motion S5M-22820.

Motion moved,

That the Rural Economy and Connectivity Committee recommends that the Code of Practice for the Welfare of Laying Hens (Revocation) (Scotland) Notice 2020 be approved.—[Mairi Gougeon]

Motion agreed to.

Minister, I thank you and your officials for attending the meeting. I will suspend the meeting briefly to allow a changeover of the remote witnesses.

09:21 Meeting suspended.  

09:24 On resuming—