Contents
- Attendance
- Decision on Taking Business in Private
- Subordinate Legislation
- Citizens Basic Income Pilots
Subordinate Legislation
Scotland Act 1998 (Transfer of Functions to the Scottish Ministers etc) Order 2020 [Draft]
Under agenda item 2, the committee will take evidence on a piece of subordinate legislation that is subject to the affirmative procedure. I welcome Shirley-Anne Somerville, Cabinet Secretary for Social Security and Older People, and, from the Scottish Government, Colin Brown, senior principal legal officer, and Chris Graham, head of the low-income benefits policy unit. Thank you for coming along.
The order simply enables the Scottish ministers to share with the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions existing powers that relate to employment support. It does not give ministers any legislative competence. As such, the job start payment will be delivered administratively. No further Scottish regulations are required.
I invite the cabinet secretary to make an opening statement before we move to questions.
Thank you, convener. The draft order sets out the high-level limits for the eligibility rules for job start payment assistance. It does not set out the rules for payments; it describes the limits on those rules. Those limits relate principally to the age of an eligible applicant and the requirement that they have been unemployed for six months. If it is agreed, job start payment will be delivered by Social Security Scotland and will help eligible young people with the costs associated with starting a new job.
Powers relating to employment and training are mainly reserved to the UK Government. That is why the order, which is made under section 63 of the Scotland Act 1998, is needed. The 1998 act requires that the order be subject to affirmative resolution in both houses of Parliament and in the Scottish Parliament. The order was laid in the UK and Scottish Parliaments on 31 October. We anticipate that it will be debated at Westminster in the new year, although the exact timing might depend on the outcome of December’s general election. It will then require to be made by Her Majesty at the Privy Council, and we hope that that can take place in February or March.
If approval is given by both Parliaments and the order is made, it will grant the Scottish ministers powers to arrange assistance under section 2 of the Employment and Training Act 1973. We will then put the rest of the necessary legal framework in place to launch job start payment in spring 2020. That commitment was made in our programme for government.
Any payments that are made under section 2 of the 1973 act are administrative in nature and the detailed arrangements will be set out in operational guidance. That differs from the arrangements for most other benefits that are being delivered by Social Security Scotland, which are set out in regulations made under the Social Security (Scotland) Act 2018. That is a result of how the 1973 act operates; it does not give regulation-making powers. That has some disadvantages, but it will allow us to introduce payments swiftly once we have the powers.
The draft order also provides for the requisite information-sharing powers, which relate to the sharing of revenue and customs information and social security information with the Scottish ministers. That is necessary to enable Social Security Scotland to check existing benefit awards in order to verify eligibility for the new payment. It is worth noting that the order gives shared powers, so nothing in it will reduce the powers of the secretary of state to make payments in this area.
I express my appreciation to the Scotland Office and the office of the Advocate General. Their contributions have helped to shape the order and ensured that it could be laid prior to December’s general election. I very much appreciate the joint working that has gone on between the two Governments on the issue.
I hope that the committee will agree that the order is a sensible use of the powers under the 1998 act and that the practical result will be welcomed. I am happy to take any questions.
Thank you, cabinet secretary. Are there any questions?
I know that it is only an administrative responsibility, but can you say a bit more about how the job start payment will relate to the fair start Scotland assistance? It is clear that they are both in the same area of helping people back to work. Have there been any discussions about how the two benefits will relate to each another?
A great deal of work has gone on between social security officials and officials who work under Jamie Hepburn’s portfolio. I launched the consultation at a fair start office, and the purpose of the discussions that I had there and that officials have been having is to ensure that everybody is aware of the benefit and that people know how to apply and who is eligible for it to ensure that the process is seamless.
Job start payment is assistance for young people once they have an offer of employment, and we are looking very carefully at how we can make sure that it is taken up and that eligibility for it is known far and wide. That is an important aspect of fair start, in particular, and I am very content with the work that has been going on between officials in different parts of Government to ensure that the process is seamless and that there is a good knowledge of what is available for a young person at every opportunity.
Good morning. It is fair to say that the job start payment will begin as a less well-known benefit. I would be grateful if you could elaborate on what work has been undertaken to ensure that people are aware of it and to encourage take-up.
As I said to Shona Robison, the Government and our agencies have undertaken a great deal of work to ensure that that happens, which is important. Social Security Scotland is in communication with the Department for Work and Pensions because, if a young person moves through DWP offices, it would be helpful if we could ensure that information gets out at that level. I would, of course, be happy to write to the committee to give an update on how that work is progressing, in our agencies and with the DWP.
As is the case with all benefits, a lot of stakeholder engagement has been taking place to ensure that people who support young people also know about the new benefit. An example of an organisation that delivers such support is the Prince’s Trust, which does a great deal of work with young people who might benefit from the new payment. As the committee is aware, as with all benefits, we endeavour to ensure that every stakeholder knows about the benefit and encourages the people whom they support or represent to get involved. Once we have more detail on the go-live date—it is not entirely within our gift to set that date at this point—we will be able to ramp up our work even further.
There are slightly different provisions for people who have previously been looked after. They are entitled to the payment for a longer period—up to the age of 26. Has specific work been done to ensure that members of that group are aware of the new benefit?
Absolutely. That is one of the key areas that we are looking at, because there is a specific part of the job start payment for people who are leaving care. Work has been done with Who Cares? Scotland and other organisations to see how we can develop that. As I said, once a go-live date has been set, that work can be increased. We are determined to do that, because there is no point in having that part of the job start payment if those young people are not aware of it.
As far as you know, are there similar benefits to the job start payment in other parts of the UK, perhaps in a different guise, or is it unique to Scotland?
The cabinet secretary mentioned that we are using the 1973 act, which does not allow for regulation-making powers. It seems logical that such powers would be needed to enable the Government to do things quickly, so there is a question about how the Government might operate in the future. As difficult as it has been to do all this, has enough been done to ensure that we simplify the system, or will what is being done further complicate it? Is any work being done on that?
There is certainly no payment available for young people in this way in the rest of the UK at the moment. Certain support provisions are out there, but it is more onerous and difficult for a young person to apply for them. For example, a young person might be required to include receipts of expenditure and to prove what they have done, rather than having the reassurance of knowing that a payment will be made.
I appreciate that, in some ways, the job start payment is being delivered in a strange way, because we are referring back to a much older act, which involves some limitations. That is why joint working between the UK and Scottish Governments has been particularly important in ensuring that there has been good communication about what the Scottish Government wants to do and about the implications that that might have for the UK Government. What we have done is simply the only way in which we could have done things within the powers that we have. That is why I thought that it was important to put that on the record in my opening remarks.
10:15
I am looking at the Scottish Government’s response to the consultation on the job start payment as it relates to the theme of disregards. At the start of the meeting, before we moved on to our formal agenda, I mentioned issues relating to universal credit. Concerns have been raised that the introduction of the job start payment could impact on the moneys to which a young person who is in receipt of universal credit is entitled. I note that conversations are taking place with the DWP and Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. Have you been reassured that that issue has been, or will be, dealt with successfully?
We will certainly do everything that we can, through everything that we are doing in relation to social security, to ensure that the money that is given to a young person—or, indeed, to anyone else—does not have an impact on the payment of other benefits. A young person who receives the job start payment will be moving into employment, so the eligible earnings from that employment will impact on their universal credit, but it will not be their receiving the job start payment that will tip them over a taper.
In everything that we do, we start from the principle of ensuring that the payments that we make will not, if at all possible, have an impact on universal credit or on any other passported benefit. However, given the way in which the job start payment will be made, it is likely that a person’s eligible earnings will impact on their universal credit.
I have one final question, which is not at all meant to sound churlish. It is positive that young people will get £250 or £400 to support them into employment, given all the cost pressures around that. It is money that they will get in Scotland that they would not get anywhere else in the UK, which is hugely positive.
However, I am the convener of the Social Security Committee, so you would expect me to ask about cost increases over time. When does the Government intend to review the balance of £250 and £400? In asking that question, I note that those payments are already greater than the initial amount on which the Government consulted. When will it be appropriate to review the level of payment?
We review social security spending during our budgetary discussions. As is the case with every benefit, the level of the payment will be part of those discussions. It is very important that the level be reviewed, and that will be done as our usual budgetary considerations go forth.
That will be done as a matter of course.
As there are no other questions, we move to agenda item 3. I invite Ms Somerville to move motion S5M-19843.
Motion moved,
That the Social Security Committee recommends that the Scotland Act 1998 (Transfer of Functions to the Scottish Ministers etc) Order 2020 [draft] be approved.—[Shirley-Anne Somerville]
Motion agreed to.
I thank the cabinet secretary and her officials for coming along this morning.
10:18 Meeting suspended.10:19 On resuming—