Rural Economy and Connectivity Committee

Meeting date: Wednesday, March 18, 2020

Official Report 542KB pdf

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Transport (Update)

The next item is a transport update. As I mentioned earlier, the committee will take evidence from the cabinet secretary on the resilience of transport services and networks in Scotland during the current Covid-19 outbreak.

I welcome, once again, Michael Matheson, the Cabinet Secretary for Transport, Infrastructure and Connectivity. I believe that the cabinet secretary will make an opening statement. I am usually quite strict on timings, but there is, given the importance of the matter, some leeway.

The committee will be aware of the Government-wide response to Covid-19. Transport Scotland resilience officials are fully engaged in the process through SGoRR—the Scottish Government resilience room. Officials have been in regular contact with relevant stakeholders to share the latest updated health guidance, and to address concerns from stakeholders about application of the guidance.

Yesterday afternoon, I chaired a call to discuss business continuity with senior representatives from across the transport sector. The measures that we are putting in place to protect society are having an immediate and direct impact on the transport sector, and the implications for the aviation industry are already very visible. As more people take the advice to reduce social contact and to work from home where possible, those impacts will spread across other modes of transport. People in the transport sector understand that many transport links are lifeline services that are crucial to supporting society and our wider economy.

From the discussions that I have had, it is clear that, for the air, rail and bus sectors, cash-flow issues will have a significant impact on service and business viability. In addition, operators are also likely to experience a significant drop in staff availability due to increased staff absences, which will have an impact on service provision. I will mention several sectors and the challenges that they are facing.

The committee will appreciate that the aviation sector is experiencing extreme pressure. It has experienced a sharp fall in demand for services—a fall in the order of 70 per cent to 80 per cent. I have held a number of discussions with the sector in recent days to consider what action we might be able to offer to address the challenges. My officials remain in regular contact with it as we consider the issues. However, during this difficult period, it is likely that some airlines around the world will fail, which will have a direct impact on our air connectivity in the future.

The rail sector has witnessed a very significant reduction in passenger services in a short time. ScotRail has advised that it has seen about a 30 per cent reduction in demand since Monday. Consequently, a reduced level of service from ScotRail is being planned urgently, and details will be provided in the very near future. In addition, Caledonian Sleeper has contingency plans in place and is keeping them under review. Network Rail is working to ensure that it has enough resources in place for signalling centres and electrical control rooms, and it is training additional staff to the required levels of competence in order to improve its level of resilience.

On bus travel, initial data shows that the number of concessionary travel journeys has dropped by about 20 per cent from the start of the month. We are awaiting information on commercial journeys from the Confederation of Passenger Transport, but it is likely that they will show a similar level of decline. Operators are presently considering timetable changes due to the drop in patronage, and in order to manage resilience in their service provision. I have also discussed with CPT some measures that could assist the sector. The Office of the Traffic Commissioner for Scotland is expected to issue new guidance shortly in response to operators’ concerns about the need to make changes to registered services at short notice, in the light of the steep fall in demand.

In relation to ferries, plans have been designed to ensure that services can continue, albeit at reduced capacity, when necessary. Officials remain in regular contact with our ferry operators to monitor potential impacts on services. Both Caledonian MacBrayne and Serco NorthLink are taking guidance from Transport Scotland’s resilience team and Health Protection Scotland. Both operators have robust protocols in place.

As is the case with the rest of the Scottish Government, Transport Scotland resources have been pivoted to respond to Covid-19 and the challenges that it presents. As, I am sure, the committee will appreciate, that has resulted in a significant reprioritisation of work within the organisation. That will, naturally, have an impact on a range of policy areas. However, for now, the focus of my officials is firmly on the challenges that are presented by Covid-19.

It is extremely important that, through this unprecedented time, we do our best to keep Scotland moving. I assure the committee that that is what we are seeking to do. I am, of course, happy to respond to questions.

Thank you, cabinet secretary. I think that every member around the table has questions. I will start, if I may. Many of the aeroplanes that fly passengers around the world also carry cargo below them. With passengers no longer able to travel to America, I suspect that people are also wondering how cargo that would have been shipped out there is going to get there. Have you been approached by airlines on that, and can you give us any help and guidance on it?

The convener raises an interesting point. Very often, the additional belly space on passenger services is used for cargo. Although we have not been directly contacted by any airlines, I am aware that Prestwick airport, for example, has received increased enquiries about capacity for additional freight. There is clearly a significant realignment on-going in the industry, but there appears to be an increase in demand for cargo-only services as a result of the reduction in passenger services. The increase in inquiries that Prestwick airport is receiving is a reflection of that. Whether that will materialise into direct contracts or services is still to be seen, but there is no doubt that there will be an expansion of air freight, given the reduction in passenger services and the resulting lack of belly space that is now available for air cargo.

My second question relates to lorries and transport of goods. I believe that there has been some relaxation on drivers’ hours. Obviously, it is important that drivers are not put at risk by having to work extra hours, but it is important that they can get freight—the food that we all need—to shops. Are there restrictions that are particular to areas of Scotland—for example, in relation to delivery after certain times—that the Government in Scotland needs to be looking at, or is relaxation of rules on drivers’ hours as much as can be done currently?

You are correct: the Department for Transport has implemented relaxation of the rules as of today. There are five categories, if I recall correctly, that have been relaxed. The relaxation applies to point to point—between distribution centres and so on and then to supermarkets. It is not for local deliveries, for which there are still restrictions. The relaxation has been implemented for the next month, until the middle of April, and is to be welcomed. It will assist the sector to meet the increased demand from retail for foodstuffs. It will also help to support resilience in the sector as staff go off as a result of contracting coronavirus.

At Scottish Government level, through the chief planner we have asked local authorities to relax their planning restrictions on delivery times to local stores by heavy goods vehicles, and they have agreed to take that forward. That will relax rules on the times during which HGVs can make deliveries in our towns and cities in order to address the change in demand that they face. A combination of actions will support resilience and support the sector, going forward.

I have a final question on that, before I bring in other members. Obviously, many supermarkets and food stores in cities are difficult for lorries to access. Reducing the time that they are there might mean that they can make more deliveries. Is any thought being given to changing parking restrictions in sensitive areas to allow lorries to get in and out quickly with food supplies that are in short supply around the country?

We have not received representations on parking restrictions. We have, through the chief planner, asked local authorities to relax periods at which lorries can access stores. The restrictions are often because they are near residential premises. Relaxing conditions will allow them to deliver outwith the times at which they would normally be able to deliver, which will help to smooth out the process and assist the range of retail outlets that are facing increasing demand to get more regular supplies.

Maureen Watt wants to come in on a particular point regarding aeroplanes. Did I get that right?

Yes, I do. I also want to say that maybe we could divide questions up so that we are not jumping all over the place. If we maybe start with—

I am happy to manage that, Maureen.

You mentioned there being more interest in air freight out of Prestwick. I have had representations from small fishermen about getting their products to markets, which have been reduced worldwide. How can we let people know that there might be possibilities to move air freight out of Prestwick airport, rather than them having to take their produce to London?

10:45  

Air freight companies are inquiring whether there is additional capacity that they could make use of at Prestwick, as opposed to Prestwick saying that companies can bring their goods to be air freighted. Air freight operators are looking to make use of additional capacity. If a business in your constituency is looking to make use of air freight, it would have to go through an air freight operator to find out where in Scotland it could drop off its goods to be freighted to where they are meant to be going. We are seeing that change. For example, Emirates carries a lot of seafood to Dubai. There is no doubt that the seafood operators that would normally make use of the belly space on Emirates flights—which is continuing its services at present—will have to look for another air freight option if that changes; they might have to use another operator.

Loganair has recently taken over some Flybe routes. Have you been in contact with Loganair to discuss protecting our islands, and people’s ability to move on and off them when they want to?

Yes. We have had fairly extensive contact with Loganair. You might be aware of the information that it has published during the past couple of hours to say that it is reducing its present timetable by 55 per cent. Effectively, that means that, at the moment, it is not going to take on the Flybe routes that it indicated that it would take on. It is looking to reduce its schedule overall, to protect against the challenges that it faces. It has witnessed a very significant drop in bookings and is having to manage that within its existing schedule, which is why it is reducing its schedule overall.

In our discussions with Loganair, we sought to ensure that no island loses out, and that all of them continue to have air connectivity. The schedule that it has brought forward ensures that that continues to be the case. What we will see is a reduction in frequency, and flights might go from one island to the next to pick up passengers before moving on to the mainland. That is because of the big drop-off in passenger numbers. However, all islands continue to have air connectivity, and we are continuing to work with Loganair to ensure that that is maintained.

I have a point that follows on from Maureen Watt’s question. It is about the air traffic between the islands. Maureen used the phrase “on and off” the islands. However, a significant element that differentiates air travel in the Highlands and Islands from elsewhere is the internal services, which are a lifeline, rather than a choice.

I want to move on from air travel to the interisland ferry system. Orkney, for example, has interisland ferry services. The cabinet secretary has spoken about resilience in relation to staff and availability. As with the Clyde and Hebrides fleet, the Orkney fleet is ageing. Both the northern island authorities—Shetland Islands Councils and Orkney Islands Council—are very concerned about the future of their interisland ferry systems. This might seem like shameless opportunism, but is there an opportunity to revisit ferry funding for those island authorities, given the potential for a downturn in air services and the relatively modest sums that those authorities are looking for to address the issues that their interisland ferry services face?

Although that does not specifically relate to Covid-19—

I suggest that it does.

The member will appreciate that we have to consider our existing financial commitments to ensure that services continue to be provided. Therefore, we are now in a space in which the normal funding that we would provide to help to generally support services or reduce their cost has to switch to only maintaining services, because of the drop-off.

As you can imagine, as we see a drop-off in passenger numbers for ferry services, that will increase financial pressures on organisations such as CalMac and Serco, which provides the northern isles service. As we see a drop-off in passengers for rail and bus services, that will have financial implications. We are having to look right across our existing financial commitments to establish what we need to do to support the sector as best we can, and to sustain services as best we can, across all modes. Services will not be sustained at their present level—there is no way that that is possible.

You mentioned the interisland ferries in the northern isles. We could find ourselves in a situation in which some of the bus operators in the northern isles end up getting into significant financial difficulty because of the drop-off in patronage levels. We need to think about other things that we can do to support the sector overall.

That is a long way of saying that, in order to sustain businesses, the normal rules on how we provide funding to the sector will have to change in the short term so that, when business starts to return to normal, there will be businesses there that can pick up and deliver those services. Therefore, I will not give a commitment to doing anything over and above what we are doing at the moment—in fact, we will probably have to change quite a number of things that we have committed to so that we can support existing lifeline services.

Transport is important everywhere, but it is of particular significance in remote and rural areas, not least given the role that it plays in the delivery of, for example, health services. I imagine that it is less likely that we will evacuate folk in the crisis that faces us, but what engagement are you having with health officials on the role that transport plays in the delivery of health in such areas?

Air connectivity is particularly important for our island communities. One of the measures that we have taken is with the air ambulance service. There is a need for personal protective equipment for the crew of fixed-wing aircraft. There were some practical issues there, which have now been resolved. We have also had discussions with Loganair, which is to remove a number of aircraft from its fleet because of the drop in demand that it faces, about whether there is scope for those aircraft to be used to provide additional resilience if that is necessary. Those factors are being considered in the event that such provision is necessary.

Some of the challenges that I was dealing with at the end of last week changed dramatically over the course of the weekend, and some of the challenges that I was dealing with on Monday had changed dramatically by the end of yesterday. It is an extremely dynamic situation, which officials are dealing with on an hourly basis.

I can assure Mr Finnie that we are trying to deal with issues as and when they emerge. Where we can, we are trying to anticipate them and to put in place arrangements to deal with any consequences that might arise.

Thank you—that is reassuring.

I am sure that many people have lots of questions. As you have stated, it is a very worrying time for everyone. No one knows how long we will be in this situation. Will you be in daily contact with the operators of transport services to ensure that those services continue and that needs are met? I know that members who represent island communities are concerned about ensuring that the lifeline ferry services to those communities continue so that food supplies and services such as health services continue to be provided. Will you be in daily contact with the operators of transport services to ensure that that happens?

The Transport Scotland resilience unit is up and running; it is operating around the clock. Within that, we have what are referred to as cells in each of the areas—for example, in the ferry unit and the rail unit—which are collating and bringing together all of the issues and challenges that are arising into the central Transport Scotland resilience unit. We will then identify what measures can be put in place to help to deal with issues as they arise. That in turn feeds into the SGoR process, on a national level in the Scottish Government. We have a very robust process in place for monitoring and assessing issues as and when they arise, and for trying to plan for the challenges that we face.

I am in constant contact with officials in different parts of the sector. I chaired a meeting yesterday that included a range of transport providers, from aviation to bus to road maintenance. We looked at how we can ensure that our critical transport road corridors remain open and are being properly maintained. That sector, too, faces resilience issues, with staff going off sick, and we need to ensure that arrangements are in place to deal with that. That is the extent to which I and my officials are constantly engaging with the transport sector.

You mentioned our island communities and the fact that they are dependent on lifeline services provided by air and sea. We discussed with Loganair the challenges that it faces—the change in its schedule is a reflection of that. Our discussions with Loganair were about ensuring that we maintain air connectivity to our islands to the best extent that we can. The schedule reflects the fact that while no island community will lose the air connectivity that it previously had, it will be at a reduced level compared to what it was previously.

Serco and CalMac have put in place plans to maintain ferry services as they stand. However, that may change, for example if they lose staff due to the coronavirus, and they may need to revisit their existing timetable arrangements. If they are unable to retain the existing frequency of service, they will have to consider reducing services. They may also, potentially, have to consider what those services could be used for. For example, they could be used to maintain access to essential goods, medical supplies and so on. We are looking at those issues in detail. It may be that the ferry companies will have to implement such changes earlier than they had intended, but we need to keep that under constant review.

We want to continue to provide vital lifeline services to the islands, but there will need to be changes in the next week to two weeks to ensure that those services are resilient.

This is a question that you may not be able to answer, but as we are the Rural Economy and Connectivity Committee, and as we face an unprecedented situation, I want to ask you what discussions, if any, the Government has had with the United Kingdom Government about the involvement of air force, army or navy personnel in, for example, providing connectivity to the islands.

As it stands, with the resilience plans that we have in place, we are confident that we can continue to maintain ferry connectivity to our island communities. However, crews might go off sick. Some of our smaller interisland ferries have a very small crew, given the new restrictions that have been put in place, and there is a risk that services for which there is not an alternative crew could be adversely impacted. There are specific challenges that we need to consider, if and when they occur. That is part of the work that we are taking forward at present.

Larger vessels are different. Some of the larger vessels are often double crewed, so they have greater resilience in meeting any staff shortages. However, we might have to scale back the frequency of services to allow vessels to be freed up to serve another route for a period of time during the day, which we would not normally do.

We might have to move vessels around at given times should that be necessary, but we are not at that stage yet. We have to take into account all such things in trying to ensure that we maintain the level of connectivity as best we can in the very difficult circumstances that we face.

11:00  

We have talked about ferries and island communities. I know that Kenneth Gibson asked a question in the chamber the other day about the island of Cumbrae getting freight and food delivered. As you know, we have remote and rural areas that are not islands, such as Wigtownshire and Stranraer. How will we support the continuation of freight delivery to those areas?

I understand that haulier drivers will be educated about whether they should self-isolate if they meet certain criteria. However, there are private ferry companies, such as Stena Line and P&O Ferries, that go from Cairnryan, which is among the busiest ports in Scotland and which supports the whole throughput of freight from the central belt to Northern Ireland. I think that the number of passengers is being reduced, but is work being done to look at freight support and whether the private ferry companies are reducing their sailing journeys? Are they still continuing at the moment, as they provide freight from the central belt to Ireland?

As things stand, they have arrangements in place as part of their business continuity plans to look at whether they should reduce the number of sailings that they are able to offer if they have a reduced crew complement. There will potentially be disruptions in sailings from those areas to Northern Ireland. It is clear that that link is critical to Northern Ireland, and the operators will use their continuity plans to help to maintain it as best they can.

I cannot give members guarantees on freight operators continuing to maintain services to ferry operators at the ports, as each individual freight operator will have to ensure that it has its own business continuity plan in place and look at what alternative arrangements it can put in place should it lose members of staff. It is likely that there will be disruption at some point, because some freight operators will have only so many drivers and, if a couple of them go off work, those operators will have to reprioritise their freight work. That is inevitable, so there will be disruption in the process. Each company, in the light of who it is carrying freight for, will have to come to an agreement on what it is going to prioritise in continuing to carry.

When I visited Cairnryan recently with the Culture, Tourism, Europe and External Affairs Committee, we looked at lorries that were unescorted by humans. Basically, things were dropped off and shunted on to the ferries. Do you expect that we will see more of that type of behaviour?

It is possible; it simply depends on the freight and logistic operators that deliver the services. Some of them might just drop off things that will be shunted on to vessels. I expect that people will want to prioritise key elements if they are limiting availability and what they can carry. However, we are nowhere near that point.

Obviously, the crossing to Northern Ireland is absolutely critical for the services that Northern Ireland requires. At this stage, the plan is to continue to help to provide the service in the way that it is currently provided. There might be some disruption to that, but the ferry operators have put business continuity plans in place to try to ensure that they minimise that as much as possible.

 

I turn to the issue of bus services. Those of us who are still using public transport see that passenger numbers are already plummeting, so we know that services are going to be reduced.

In the city centre, reducing a frequent service from every 10 minutes to every half an hour will be inconvenient, but it will not be devastating for passengers. However, in some rural communities, the vast majority of services are not as frequent. They are subsidised through either the local authority or the transport agency, and are probably already precarious and likely to become more precarious. Taking one of those services away could make the difference between someone in a village getting to work and not getting to work.

In your discussions with bus companies, are you stressing the importance of maintaining those lifeline services? They are subsidised because they do not have hundreds of passengers. We need to keep them going.

Looking at the slightly longer term—and I appreciate that we will come back to it—those services are already very precarious, and any reduction in revenue could mean that a service is pulled altogether. How can we best maintain those services through these times?

The reality is that we are going to see a reduction in the availability of services across the network, largely because of the drop in patronage and the financial implications of that for bus operators. Alongside that is the need for resilience in terms of staffing levels so that, as staff go off sick or self-isolate, operators maintain as best they can the services that they drop down to. We are going to see a drop.

If it is a registered route, it would have to go to the Traffic Commissioner for Scotland for consideration.

From my discussions with the representatives of the bus industry to date, it would be fair to say that they are acutely aware of the fact that they provide lifeline services in many rural communities. That factors into their thinking about any timetable changes; it is part of the discussions that we are having with them. They fully understand and recognise it; we have highlighted it to them as well. However, for some of them, it is a challenge just to sustain services, as staff start to go off and absence levels increase—as we are already seeing. Reducing their timetable helps them to maintain services, at a lower level.

I fully recognise the point that you are making. The industry fully recognises it, and we have been impressing the point upon it as well.

I turn to the issue of rail services. I have noticed that the number of carriages on some services has been reduced. That may simply be a response to passenger numbers, or it may be because of other issues.

Can you give me an update about the type of cleaning regime that is being put in place? Lots of people are voting with their feet, if you like—they are using their car instead of public transport, because they are worried. However, a lot of people do not have that choice, and will continue to use our trains in order to get to work, and to visit people—although that will be minimised. What discussions are being had with rail companies around deep cleaning of carriages, for example, to give people as much confidence as possible in using those services for as long as they continue?

ScotRail has published some very helpful information on changes to its cleaning regime, which details the areas in which it has enhanced cleaning. An example is contact areas: entrances to the train station, the stair rails, the ticket consoles, the door buttons—in all those areas it has been undertaking enhanced cleaning over the course of the past week or so, in response to advice that was provided by Health Protection Scotland. ScotRail has made available very detailed information about that.

Bus operators are doing that as well. They have enhanced their cleaning regimes in key areas where there is a lot of personal contact, in order to try to reduce the risk of transmission of the virus. They have communicated that at national level, and have continued to try to reinforce the actions that they are taking. That will continue to be in place.

Has there been any change involving, for example, taking carriages off to deep clean them?

It is enhanced cleaning within the existing regime. Operators are targeting specific areas based on the advice that they have received, which is that enhanced cleaning should be undertaken on those areas. That is the type of work that they are undertaking at present.

The next question will come from Angus MacDonald.

All the points that I was going to raise regarding CalMac, Loganair and bus services have been covered, and I welcome the assurances from the cabinet secretary.

The Caledonian sleeper, clearly, has not been without its challenges in recent times, in relation to getting back up again. Will there be a reduction in service so that it runs every second day or night, or whatever?

It is presently reviewing that. As it runs a single service per day, it does not have the same challenges that ScotRail does in relation to the range of services that it provides. As I said, it is presently reviewing its existing arrangements, and it may be that there will be a reduced service that is reflective of a reduction in demand. It may also be that part of the service in Scotland becomes a reduced service. We may be in a situation where the northern element of it is reduced and there is a service only from Glasgow or Edinburgh—again, due to lack of demand for the service. Although no decision has been made on that, that is the type of thing that may have to be considered. Depending where demand goes, it may also have to consider the frequency of the service. All those issues are being kept under consideration.

I wish that I could tell the committee exactly what it is going to do based on the here and now; however, because it is such a dynamic situation, it is—in effect—having to re-evaluate the situation each day based on ticket sales, usage, cancellation levels, staff and crewing levels, and so on. The question of what services can be sustained and maintained is having to be constantly reviewed.

At present, it is continuing with the service at it stands. However, the Caledonian sleeper is, clearly, having to consider alternative plans that may have to be employed should it be in a situation of a continued drop in demand, given issues around staff resilience levels.

I will follow on from Colin Smyth’s questioning. I am not sure whether the cabinet secretary has answered this. However, when we get over this and there is reinstatement of services, does the traffic commissioner have any authority, where they find that a full service has not been reinstated, to urge bus companies to reinstate it? In other words, does the commissioner have any authority to urge bus companies not to use the current downturn in services and cutting of timetables as a reason to continue that going forward?

Given where we are, and given the extent and nature of the drop-off in passenger numbers that some businesses are facing and experiencing, it is difficult to focus on recovery at this stage. After we have come through the coronavirus challenge, we would—of course—like to be in a situation where things can return to normal. However, it may be that some businesses get into such levels of financial distress during the course of the coronavirus challenge that they will not be able to return to normal on an on-going basis for some time.

It is difficult to say that things will simply return to normal once we go into the recovery phase, because it may be that some businesses will have had to completely reshape their organisation to survive the challenges that they face, and may not be in a position where they can offer the same range of services in the future.

We will—of course—consider that issue as we go forward. However, given the scale and nature of some of the challenges that businesses face at the moment, many of them are focusing simply on trying to survive and to get through this, rather than thinking about what they can provide at the other end of it.

Thank you for that, cabinet secretary. I am reliably informed by my committee members that three people want to ask very short questions. Let us see whether they can live up to that. I will go straight down the line to Emma Harper for the first—and her only—question.

I will be quick. Whether related to Covid-19 or not, it has been suggested that rural bus routes could be used for delivering essential items, such as prescriptions. Has there been any discussion about using the bus service to help to support isolated people who need medicine?

Operators have flagged up the possibility of using their vehicles for the purpose of delivering goods in that way. Aileen Campbell has been looking at that in relation to some of the community resilience measures that could be put in place.

Nautilus International, the seafarers union, had some particular asks about the challenges around crew changes that you alluded to. Have you had any engagement with it? Perhaps you could look at its asks, which also involve health. More generally, could you comment on the involvement of, for instance, the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers or others? It would seem that trade unions are pivotal in this situation and substantial changes have been suggested to a lot of work practices.

I am happy to take away your first point and to check that. I do not know off the top of my head what actions were taken on the back of that. In fairness, the unions have been very understanding, given the unique set of circumstances that we face and the challenges that those circumstances are creating. They are working with operators as best they can to accommodate those things. Of course, the unions play an important part in helping to meet some of the challenges with staff that we may face going forward. Part of the timetable changes that may be necessary are to offer greater resilience to services. That will reduce demand on staff and potentially help to improve their health and wellbeing.

Mr Finnie, you said that you would not take advantage of me, so ask your question briefly.

Is the Scottish Government actively engaging with the trade union movement on those issues?

It is. You may be aware that my colleague Fiona Hyslop hosted an event last week on the fair work agenda that involved the Scottish Trades Union Congress, and the trade union side has been part of the wider strategy that we are trying to take forward on the challenges that the workforce faces.

Mr Lyle, Mr Finnie has already used up your life on that one, so please keep your question short.

Many of us around the table have food warehouses and oil refineries in our constituencies. Are you, as transport secretary, in constant contact with those companies to ensure supplies?

Sorry. To who?

To ensure supplies from food warehouses and oil refineries.

I am not personally directly in contact with them. We are engaging with stakeholders through the transport resilience hub. For example, I have had contact with the Road Haulage Association and the Freight Transport Association, which represent those organisations, to look at what measures can be put in place. The point that the convener raised was that one of the issues that they had was on time restrictions for drivers and so on—

Such as tachograph rules.

Yes, the relaxation of some of those restrictions is to assist them to continue to move goods. That will also have a bearing on other parts of the sector that depend on road haulage. We have also taken measures through the chief planner to relax the restrictions on when vehicles can deliver goods to supermarkets in urban areas. That is part of trying to smooth the process of regular supplies being provided to retail outlets.

I think that is all the committee’s questions. I will ask a question and see if we agree, and I am sure that we will. You have outlined some of the problems regarding the movement of transport and freight around Scotland. I hope that you agree that people need to go out and buy what they need, not what they want, and if they did that it would be easier for everyone to get what they need, not just for some people to overstock their homes. I am sure that you would agree with that.

Absolutely. As the sector has told us, there are enough supplies in the chain; the issue is people overbuying. The selfish nature of that is having an impact on some of the most vulnerable members of our community. I very much welcome the action that some of the supermarkets and retailers have taken by having protected time for elderly and disabled people to have access to their shops in the mornings for a restricted period. If people would buy only the goods that they require at that point, it would ensure that everyone has access to the foodstuffs and household goods that they require.

I very much agree with what the convener said and I hope that all members will continue to impress that message on people in their communities and encourage people to act responsibly.

It is important that everyone understands that it is about thinking about everyone not just about oneself. That concludes today’s meeting.

Meeting closed at 11:20.