I close the debate on behalf of the Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee. I congratulate Colin Smyth and Brian Whittle, who both got that title right. I think that other people were perhaps confused by the fact that although the report is from the Economy, Jobs and Fair Work Committee, the committee now has a new name.
I thank everyone who has contributed to the debate—there have been 19 speeches from 18 speakers. It is encouraging that Parliament is as interested in looking at the topic of bank closures as the committee is.
I will touch on the key issues as I see them, and, I hope, as the committee sees them. If I have time, I will talk about individual contributions.
As others have said, online and phone banking are all very well, but cash is still needed. That point is stressed in paragraph 19 of the committee’s report. Banks are there to serve the public and not just to drive change. Banks are not an optional extra, like a sweetie shop or the bookies. They are a public service, as others have mentioned, including Brian Whittle. There is a tension because banks are private businesses but, as others have said, they would not exist if the public sector had not bailed them out.
A theme of the debate has been the lack of consultation with customers, which was mentioned by Kate Forbes, Edward Mountain, Gillian Martin and Stuart McMillan. Others mentioned that theme, too, but I had stopped writing down their names by that point.
I remain unconvinced that consultation could not happen, and I think that that is true of the committee. Consultation before a final decision is taken happens in other sectors; it could happen here, because a public service is being provided, even though it is being run by the private sector.
When it comes to using post offices as an alternative, I am positive. Paragraphs 23 to 26 of the report look at that. I consider that post offices are one of the best options, given that we cannot recreate the bank network that we had in the past.
I was interested in the Post Office’s response, which accepts that awareness is lacking—only 40 per cent of the public realise that they can use it for banking services. I think that the committee did not realise how much could be done at a post office either. There definitely has to be an increase in awareness and I welcome the Post Office’s commitment to an awareness-raising campaign, which I think starts on 1 October.
I was in one of the groups that went out to visit Leven, along with Colin Beattie. We were shown a letter—I believe that it was from the Royal Bank of Scotland, which was closing its branch in that town. It suggested only other Royal Bank of Scotland branches as alternatives. Other members have mentioned how far away those branches are. As far as I could see, the post office was not mentioned in the letter. Something is clearly far wrong if we are hoping that post offices are the way forward and the banks will not even tell their own customers that using them is an option. The bank expects them to travel 20 miles, or for an hour—whatever it might be—to get to another branch of that bank.
I was encouraged by parts of the Post Office response, especially the comments on awareness raising. However, I was less happy about what the Post Office said about security in its letter to the committee convener—I am not sure whether all members have seen that. I, for one, am less comfortable using a post office to carry out banking services where I have to use a till in an open-plan supermarket. In some places there is still a separate area where people can do their post office and banking transactions—I was at one such post office in Portsmouth in the summer—and I think that a lot of people are comfortable with that set-up.
However, in its letter, the Post Office criticised the committee for even raising the issue. It said:
“Making this claim publicly is an open invitation to the criminal world and threatens the safety of our staff and customers”.
What a ridiculous response from what is meant to be a national organisation. There is real concern on the part of many people.
Local post office owners in my constituency have talked about the tensions that they experience with the Post Office as a whole. I think that Lewis Macdonald talked about the different rates that are paid and how little money makes its way to the postmaster or postmistress—if that is the correct term. Rachael Hamilton and Colin Smyth spent quite a lot of time talking about post offices, and I had a bit of an interchange with Rachael Hamilton on that.
The only bank that contacted me in the summer after the report was published was Lloyds Bank of Scotland. I met the bank, which stressed that businesses have the option of having their money collected by the bank’s collection service. That is an option to which the committee did not give much consideration. However, some businesses do not think that it is an option.
The response from HM Treasury was also a mixture of positive and negative. On the positive side were the comments about the Payment Systems Regulator in relation to Link. As members said, some reductions in service and charges will not happen, which shows that the UK Government can have an impact on the banking sector.
More negative, on the access to banking standard, the Treasury said that the Government
“considers the scheme to be working effectively at present.”
I think that the committee was pretty well unanimous in saying that the access to banking standard is not working effectively and needs to be put on a statutory basis.
We are concerned about losing ATMs, as members said, but, on a more positive note, the Link system is an example of the banks working together, as I said in my intervention during Lewis Macdonald’s speech. It shows that that can happen, so community hubs or joint branches are a possibility. It is very positive that we can all get money out of almost any machine.
In passing, I will mention my constituency. The RBS branch in Shettleston was very busy. I used it often, and there was often a queue—Jackie Baillie talked about the queues in her branch. However, RBS announced that the Shettleston branch would close. I was so incensed that I did something that I do not think that I have ever done before: I worked with the local Labour Party. Specifically, I worked with Margaret Curran and Frank McAveety on a joint campaign, which was led by a community council. We did not have a lot of success.
I do not have time to mention every member who spoke in the debate. The committee’s convener, Gordon Lindhurst, made a lot of good points. I have been wondering how to respond to his biblical reference to Jesus turning over the tables of the money-changers. Perhaps Gordon Lindhurst and I could go on a tour of Edinburgh tomorrow and turn over a few tables.
Kate Forbes made the interesting point that digital progress should make things more inclusive, and other members said that there should be more choice, rather than less. I agree with that.
Mike Rumbles suggested that a Scottish Parliament committee and a Westminster committee should do a joint inquiry. I am not sure whether that has happened. I am certainly open to the idea of it, although it has some practical problems and challenges. There is also the problem that we have would have to get the Westminster folk not to look down on us but to treat us as equals. Having been there, I have to say that I think that members of the UK Parliament have a lot more time on their hands than members of the Scottish Parliament have.
In conclusion, I am delighted that our inquiry has generated this level of interest. I again thank the witnesses, the speakers and everyone who has taken part. I think that I can say on behalf of the committee that we will not forget about this topic. We will be keeping an eye on how things develop, and we may be back to challenge the different players in due course.